4 messages, 112 lines:
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Date:         Tue, 17 May 1994 10:44:15 EDT
From:         "Enrique E. Gildemeister" <EEGLC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changed into B then changed back to A

To: Ian Fairclough (continued)

I realized after sending my message to SERIALST that the first thing that
has to be determined is whether you have a serial or whether you have
*serials*. Make sure that that first title change really is a title change.
Check rule 21.2A and 21.2C and their associated LCRI's to determine this.
Another place to consult is LCRI 12.0 "Title page substitute". If no title
pages are involved and the older title appears on title #2 somewhere, consider
not changing title.

One other possibility: if the issues of title #2 are just a few, consider
this title to be a title of short duration. Make a 246 13 or explain in a
note with a 246 10 but don't treat as a title change.

It's hard to tell when you don't have the materials in front of you, but you
have gotten my best shot. Hope this helps.

Rick Gildemeister
Document/Serials Cataloger/OCLC Enhance Coordinator
Lehman College of the City University of New York

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Date:         Tue, 17 May 1994 10:59:50 EDT
From:         "Enrique E. Gildemeister" <EEGLC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changed into B then changed back to A

To: Erik Arfeuille

I was going to disagree with you on the question of A = B = A, but I see you
are in Europe, i.e. out of the grasp of the tentacles of LC. All this business
of uniform titles for serials, as we've treated them in this discussion has
been an LC Rule *Interpretation*; in a sense this is local American practice.
(I understand that guidelines have finally appeared in the AACR2 1993 amend-
ments). In Leuven, the rule 25.5B may never have been interpreted in the way
it has been in the U.S. (voluminously). While here you *can't* have A = B = A,
in other places it seems perfectly possible, and to come to full circle, you
can use MARC 785, indicator 8 for "changed back to".

Rick Gildemeister
Documents/Serials Cataloger/OCLC Enhance Coordinator
Lehman College of the City University of New York

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Date:         Tue, 17 May 1994 09:13:28 -0700
From:         Mitch Turitz <TURITZ@SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Changed into B then changed back to A

Ian:

Although this question has already been answered with good authoritative
and experienced answers, I would like to add my $.29 as well.  In the
CONSER EDITING GUIDE, the 785 "8" indicator is clearly distinguished as
"PRE-AACR2", as are the now-obsolete indicators "2" & "3". Also note that
the 785 is only going to be on the "dead" title and there is no
corresponding indicator on the active title.  This is a possible indication
that the indicator is only for use with old style cataloging and not with
"new" [i.e. AACR2] cataloging.

I would not recommend changing the manuals or re-defining the indicators,
as they are useful for identifying old cataloging records which were done
correctly at the Pre-AACR2 time of cataloging, but would be done
differently today.  It is also useful for libraries which may consider
transcribing their old pre-AACR2 cataloging as it was originally cataloged
and not re-cataloging it all during retrospective conversion (those of you
who have done massive retrospective conversion projects of serials know of
what I am referring to).

In short - its "old style" cataloging and is not Kosher by today's
standards.  Especially if you intend on using the latest LC (or whomever is
your favorite library's) cataloging for the active title in question.

Remember that title changes back then were handled with the dreaded "title
varies" notes and this 785 8 would be used in conjuntion with 247 fields if
there is more then one title change.  See also the new CONSER CATALOGING
MANUAL module 22.3 (choice of entry and changes in entry) under
"Interpreting Pre-AACR2 records".

-- Mitch

  _^_                                                 _^_
( ___ )-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-( ___ )
 |   |                                               |   |
 |   |     Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian           |   |
 |   |     San Francisco State University Library    |   |
 |   |     Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                 |   |
 |   |                                               |   |
( ___ )-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-( ___ )
   V                                                   V
       Rule #1: Don't let the small stuff upset you.
       Rule #2: It's ALL small stuff.

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Date:         Tue, 17 May 1994 12:26:25 EDT
From:         "Enrique E. Gildemeister" <EEGLC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changed into B then changed back to A

Regarding uniform titles for serials, I found the section in the CONSER
manual that Ian Fairclough was looking for. As I mentioned earlier,my
library doesn't own it, but I found photocopies of the relevant section
among all the clutter around my desk! See Module 5, beginning with 5.3.

Rick Gildemeister
Documents/Serials Cataloger/OCLC Enhance Coordinator
Lehman College of the City University of New York