Putting it another way:

Most of the far parts of either of the left/right spectrum embrace a world view they are welded to which is not strictly rational. The world view has a lot to do with who decides what goes on and how the world can then be set 'right' (their version of right conforming to their ideology). Trade won't get you there. Covert and overt actions might. Invasion is one. Assassination, manipulation, hacking, election smears, election tampering, the list goes on. Good old fashioned insurgencies fit in there too.

I don't think JFK tried to invade Cuba just to collect vintage 1950s American Car parts... there was ideology (less to do directly with Cuba and more to do with the overall global domino game that the US was playing with the Russians). And that wasn't even a competently staged invasion.

Hitler's ideology involved putting the Aryan on top of the world, because that's how it was meant to be. It was just a nice bonus (ya as if) that it meant he would be running the show. It would let the Aryans to form the Thousand Year Reich. Sure, just like every such right wing or left wing aggression, it had some pragmatic gains to be made (oil fields, factories, farming lands, stolen antiquities and works of art, potential recruiting ground - even some Norwegians fought for the Germans). Just like every religious war, it was a mix of ideology and acquisition of land, wealth, or power (which are different currencies of the same thing). The % of ideological motivation vs. pragmatic varies by the conflict (and I'm sure every senior leader has their own balance of what they want out of it). Sometimes it comes down to xenophobia and hate. Other times, it is just global realpolitik (Mr. Putin and the Russians have been good at that) and other times it is about a long-term plan for greatness and hegemony without an outright invasion (except of annoying neighbours and that only after a local population has been created that can be 'rescued' by the invasion) (Chinese strategy).

Few wars are entirely logically conceived of anymore. Nor are they strictly about wealth/power/land. It's always a mix.

And to go to war, which the leaders may wish, they need to motivate the populace (whip up the fear and hate or sense of injustice).

In Traveller terms, that boils down to it being possible to invade somewhere (another world or another nation on a balkanized world) for reasons that defy trading logic. That can happen with either conception of trade (small, large, or something in between since it isn't a binary choice here either).

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 3:28 AM Richard Aiken <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Bruce Johnson <xxxxxx@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
And how well do that work out for him? He got sucked into russia with an over-extended supply line, and limited resources against an entrenched opponent with easy access to replenishment, and near parity in TL (up to parity by the turning point of the war).

I’d say the German invasion of Russia rather proves my point.

I'm not sure what your point was.

But the point I was responding to was Dave's point that a lack of economic resources is the usual motivation for invasion.

But after factoring in all incidental costs (such as maintaining a permanent garrison or the reputation one gets after committing the genocide necessary to avoid said garrison), trading for whatever it is always cheaper than invading to "simply" take it 

So the economic reasons behind invasions are really psychological reasons: taking direct control of resources is perceived as intangible variable which justifies the vastly higher cost of invasion over trade.

[Phil's two replies above agree with this.]

The above being true, then it doesn't matter whether the OTU possesses relatively scarce basic resources or relatively plentiful ones. In either case, it's the intangible (and thus psychological) variable which matters, not objective reality.


--
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." - Bill Cosby
"We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous." Dean Winchester
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