On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:44:15 +1000, Kenneth Barns <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 07:56, Jeff Zeitlin <xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> A justifiable attitude, and quite parallel to the development of the 'third
>> protocol' that defines the Red Crystal - but consider, as I suggested in my
>> reply to Ken, that it was Sylea, not Vland or Terra, that was the center of
>> the nascent Third Imperium (and thus not unlikely to impose their own
>> symbology, just as a fast answer to "we need some sort of consistent
>> symbology for this").
>
>
>I think symbology, once established, is likely to be _highly_ conserved
> Consider:
>*  the various astrological/alchemical symbols are still used as short-hand
>   on astronomical charts;
>*  religious/political symbols (the cross in all its variations, the Roman
>   eagle, yin-yang);
>*  mathematical functions; and even
>*  musical notation.
>
>(For simplicity, from this point forward, I will use the term 'the "Red"
>Cross' to refer to the shape of the Red Cross - with arms of equal length
>to their width - without any reference to the colour.  I think the _shape_,
>which is not legally protected in the way the red-on-white or white-on-red
>versions of that shape are protected, is a universally recognised symbol,
>and is likely to be for a long, long time.)

Actually, that particular shape is generally called the 'Swiss' cross when
it's not used in a IFRCS/ICRC contexts, and especially when it's not
red-on-white. This is because the RC took it from the Swiss flag. The shape
alone is specifically not protected; that's why (for example) video games
can use green crosses on the "heal" packages. Both Tonga and
Johnson+Johnson were 'grandfathered' in as their usages predated the
establishment of the RC as a protective symbol; even so, Tonga switched
their national flag from being simply the red cross on white to a red flag
with a white canton with the red cross on the canton.

And, fundamentally, I don't disagree with the RC (cross or crystal)
'sticking around' (although 3000 years is stretching the suspenders a bit);
I just need to avoid it for all of the modern mundane legal reasons.

>In as much as new symbology is developed, it is to meet the needs of new
>universal concepts arising (reload, on/off, home, save ... just looking
>around my computer screen).  I have having a hard time thinking of examples
>where a widely recognised symbol for a concept which continued to be
>important was replaced by another "new" symbol.  A case in point is the
>stubborn persistence of the 3.5" floppy as the save icon (despite many
>attempts to replace it with more generic symbols), and the old rotary-dial
>handset (or whole phone) to represent the phone function ... and these
>_clearly_ outdated icons do not have the weight of generations of use
>behind them!

And yet, the 3.5 floppy quickly replaced the 5.25/8" floppy that was used
before it, and that itself replaced the reel tape. Power went from separate
1 and 0 to a combined symbol. The Red Crystal itself is only 15 years old.
Symbology stability is clearly something of a mixed bag.

>Against that high degree of conservation, I see the Rule of Man starting
>out using well-established Terran standard icons.  (And I think, your
>current concerns aside Jeff, this would almost certainly include the Red -
>or colourblind - Cross.)  Within a century or two, there would be a
>"survival of the fittest" between the Terran icons and their Vilani
>equivalents - probably with the simplest (or most unambiguous - just
>imagine the "Red" Cross being the Vilani universal symbol for toilet
>facilities) winning.

Again, I don't disagree; I simply need to avoid setting myself up for
possible legal trouble.

>By the time of Twilight some 3-400 years later, there would be a new
>universal standard for icons throughout the Imperium.  This standard would
>be the standard used by the Sylean Protectorate and all its successor
>states through until the Third Imperium.  At its nadir, the Sylea continued
>to control 4 subsectors (GURPS Humaniti).  I cannot see any cultural crises
>during that nadir which trigger a wholesale replacement of the fused
>Vilani/Terran symbology for a newly developed "Sylean" iconography.
>
>I DO like your integration of the red crystal, the ankh, and the "Red"
>Cross.  Perhaps even throw in the upward "T" and you have the fusion symbol
>that might come out of Vilani and Terran ambiguities.  Imagine an
>upside-down 5-pointed asterisk (https://tinyurl.com/robz44u)
>with the upper two arms coming together to make a "Red" Crystal.
>
>So, looking for a backstory ...
>
>Early leaders of the Rule of Man see the Vilani "upward T" (looking like
>the image I sent, but with a longer stem) and think - "Hmm, looks too much
>like an up arrow to most Terrans.  They see the Terran-official Red Cross
>and think - "Nope, that's the Vilani toilet symbol ... and besides, we need
>something that is colour independent."
>
>A graphic designer comes up with the "outreaching ankh" (as described
>above).  To Vilani, it can be sold as better than the Red Cross as it
>incorporates the Vilani "upward-T".  Across Terran-dominated space, the Red
>Cross and Crescent are gradually replaced with the Red Crystal on the
>various international and national organisations that use those icons, and
>the Crystal (heedless of colour) occupies the same place in our shared
>iconography that the "Red" Cross does today.  When Terrans see the
>"outreaching ankh" they notice the Crystal at its head; more
>literary-minded Terrans might also recognise the ankh-symbol too.  Both the
>Crystal and the ankh identify the "outreaching ankh" as the universal
>symbol for health care.  Even many minor races might see the symbol as a
>generic upright sophont, and get achieve buy-in that way.

The idea I had, after the "upward T" was floated, can be found at
https://www.freelancetraveller.com/images/red-ankh.png

>As a completely different option - how about a simplified immunoglobulin
>monomer structure, the 4-part "Y"?
>http://www.biology.arizona.edu/immunology/tutorials/antibody/structure.html

An interesting shape; perhaps a symbol for specifically pharmacology/
pharmacy, the way the Star of Life is for emergency medicine?

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