Modelling human responses to threats (combat rules) kaladorn@xxxxxx (26 Apr 2020 19:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] Modelling human responses to threats (combat rules) Jeffrey Schwartz (27 Apr 2020 01:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Modelling human responses to threats (combat rules) Timothy Collinson (27 Apr 2020 08:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Modelling human responses to threats (combat rules) kaladorn@xxxxxx (28 Apr 2020 01:15 UTC)

Re: [TML] Modelling human responses to threats (combat rules) Jeffrey Schwartz 27 Apr 2020 01:31 UTC

There's been a number of weird one-shot-stop cases over the years.

I wrote an RPG years ago where the mechanic was:
1) subtract damage from hit points
2) Apply any old damages (bleed for example)
3) roll under hit points to remain in combat

And, sure enough, in one play session we had one of the big bad
fighter types get hit by a .22LR and go down, with most of his HP
total remaining

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 7:14 PM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at
yahoo.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
>
> Way back when there was a discussion on this about the 'new' way that TNE handled that sort of damage.
>
> I don't remember who was the 'rep' from GDW but it was someone from the company who was 'in the know'.
>
> He provided a lot of data (after action rpts) from the time when the SanDiego PD began undercover patrolling along the US/Mexico border.
> At that time SDPD was one of the leading 'cowboy' (think Marshall Dillon from 'Gunsmoke') pd's with just about the highest fatality rate in the US amongst it's officers.
>
> There were lots of examples of 'weirdness' like the officer who was instantly incapacitated by extreme pain from a minor wound (broken wrist) to a bad guy from Mexico (turned out to be a Mex police officer & it was never determined why he crossed the border & attacked) who, literally, had his guts blown out by a shotgun but still continued to 'function' & finally managed to stagger back across the border where he died a while later.
>
>
> On Sunday, April 26, 2020, 12:54:02 PM MST, xxxxxx@gmail.com <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I still think MT has the best understanding of how weapon damage to humans works. Their model of hits and no loss of ability until *after* the fight is closest to real world behaviours. [1]
>
> Applying the damage after the Adrenalin has worn off is pretty close to what happens in the real world of  human reactions to stress. Generally, if you are switched on, stressed and your Adrenalin is running, you can shrug off a fair bit (until the Adrenalin wears off, then you crash). That's like MT's post combat application of damage to stats and recalculationuts blown out by a shotgun of a new hits total until after you heal (meaning if you get in another fight before you heal the stat damage, you have fewer hits).
>
> I've known combat medics, paramedics, and doctors. I've been instructed in how the body reacts in combat (never had to go into a firefight thankfully) by the military and police (informally). The parameds will explain the "Golden Hour" where, short of a gross bleed, multi shot trauma, or an instant kill shot, you can generally get the patient stabilized enough to get to an ER and likely survive. Going into shock can kill you, but they try to help put that off for as long as possible.
>
> One thing no game version (or not game I know of) models accurately:
>
> Things you know well, like well trained shooting habits and their muscle-memory execution, fire and movement, and situational awareness get sharper when you are switched on and the Adrenalin (fight or flight) is flowing.
>
> Contrariwise, things you were only sort of familiar with get actively worse (your Mechanical-0 skill might be treated as unskilled) because under stress, memory is a bit patchy, fine motor skills can be a problem (for tasks not heavily imprinted in muscle-memory) due to the Adrenalin, and the brain has a lot of its resources focused on the eyes (heaviest) and ears and other senses to detect threats. That enhanced processing focus means you are more likely to detect a threat and less likely to be to do slightly familiar tasks at all.
>
> I am toying with the idea that, in high stress situations, you lose a skill level on skills of level 1 (0 level goes to untrained) and survival related skills (recon, gun combat skills used in CQB, melee combats, athletics, etc) level 3+ gain 1 level. Skill level 2 is unchanged. Maybe the bonus is not called for, but the penalty on the low side probably is.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Note [1]: The 'immediate damage to stats' model is accurate in one case: When you are drawn into a fight you are not expecting and your Adrenalin is not switched on when you take damage (a bullet, a sucker punch you didn't see coming, etc). In that case, the pain and other effects hit before the Adrenalin fires up, so the one-shot take out is actually a thing... this is why the first blow in a melee fight is a big determiner of victory if the other side isn't expecting it. People who just crumple when shot often are not wound up and switched on yet... they just get hit and go down. This should be one of the advantages of an ambush or sucker punch scenario - the damage goes directly to stats before the fight gets moving. And an exceptional success should do even more damage in this scenario to allow for the one shot take out.
>
> Tom B
>
>
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