Starship Berthing Philosophies? John Groth (23 Jun 2015 03:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (23 Jun 2015 03:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 04:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (23 Jun 2015 06:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Peter Berghold (23 Jun 2015 11:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (23 Jun 2015 13:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (23 Jun 2015 14:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 16:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Ethan McKinney (23 Jun 2015 18:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 18:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (23 Jun 2015 20:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Ethan McKinney (23 Jun 2015 20:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 22:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Ethan McKinney (23 Jun 2015 23:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Ethan McKinney (23 Jun 2015 23:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 23:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (24 Jun 2015 01:05 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (24 Jun 2015 01:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 06:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (24 Jun 2015 06:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 06:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (24 Jun 2015 07:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? William Ewing (24 Jun 2015 07:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (24 Jun 2015 08:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 15:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 16:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 16:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 16:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (24 Jun 2015 04:36 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Knapp (24 Jun 2015 21:01 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 21:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 22:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 23:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 23:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 23:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 23:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 23:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (25 Jun 2015 03:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (25 Jun 2015 03:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (25 Jun 2015 04:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 14:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (23 Jun 2015 14:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 16:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Ethan McKinney (23 Jun 2015 17:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 18:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (24 Jun 2015 08:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 09:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (24 Jun 2015 10:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Greg Chalik (24 Jun 2015 10:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Grimmund (24 Jun 2015 13:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (24 Jun 2015 16:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Craig Berry (24 Jun 2015 16:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Greg Chalik (25 Jun 2015 06:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Greg Chalik (24 Jun 2015 20:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (25 Jun 2015 07:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Grimmund (25 Jun 2015 16:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Orffen (25 Jun 2015 20:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Richard Aiken (26 Jun 2015 06:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (26 Jun 2015 01:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (25 Jun 2015 07:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (25 Jun 2015 08:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 16:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Grimmund (25 Jun 2015 16:38 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (26 Jun 2015 00:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (25 Jun 2015 06:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Tim (25 Jun 2015 08:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (25 Jun 2015 18:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? shadow@xxxxxx (26 Jun 2015 01:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Phil Pugliese (23 Jun 2015 11:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 14:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? tmr0195@xxxxxx (23 Jun 2015 04:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Jeffrey Schwartz (23 Jun 2015 15:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Greg Chalik (24 Jun 2015 06:15 UTC)

Re: [TML] Starship Berthing Philosophies? Grimmund 25 Jun 2015 16:29 UTC

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 1:30 AM,  <xxxxxx@shadowgard.com> wrote:
>
> One *evil* trick the attacker can use is having dedicated sensor
> ships (think "spy trawler" :-) jump in well away from anyplace
> important. Unless they have really bad luck, it'd be *days* before
> anyone can get close enough to attack them.

Eh.  That's why naval squadrons have scouts.

You can also send a couple of sensor pickets ahead of the fleet by a
couple of hours.  You *may* loose the element of surprise.

OTOH, if you are *regularly* sending sensor picket ships into enemy
territory, far enough out of travelled areas to make interception
unlikley, you can still surprise the locals with a fleet.

Security will likely be more alert than if your fleet drops in
unannounced, but it may be worth it to have better tactical data on
local shipping and potential defenses.

> If they jump out, then the enemy has data that'll be 2 weeks old when
> he jumps in. That's still useful is many cases.

> But if they know when the attack is coming and where the attacking
> ships will jump in, the can beam data at the expected emergence loci.
> Giving him data that's only hours old. and may even have stuff he
> could spot himself (like where shiups are "hiding" at lower power or
> next to asteroids, etc)

Push a spotter buoy out the hatch before your sensor scout leaves.
Program that buoy to sit quietly and observe, and then start lasing
data in a particular heading on a particular date/time.  Radio
transmission with a directional antenna might work better. (or, heck,
maneuver in that direction.)

Have your fleet timed to arrive at location X  an hour before the wave
front from your spy buoy crosses that location.

*boom*  jump in and almost immediately have current intel.

 Spotting a half-meter diameter sensor buoy is going to be several
orders of magnitude harder than spotting a 100dton scout, even if you
start looking along the scout's emergence/exit point.

> These spy ships are going to annoy the hell out of defenders. :-)

On both sides.

> And, of course, if you have the resources, you have their coverage
> overlapping. So there's always at least a couple in system.

And how much of your commercial shipping

> Hide inside a "fake" asteroid. Or beyond the ice line, hide inside a
> *real* iceball.

That's going to be a long deployment.  Possible, but a long investment.

If you have to jump in way out beyond the ice line, snag a rock,
reshape the orbit, conceal your ship, etc.

Might be more cost effective to plant a sensor platform on the ice
ball, send it through the system, and go home.  Or, you know, several
of them in succession.

PS:  Not sure about lasers not being visible in space.  In theory,
yes, if space were a perfect vacum, the laser would be invisible, but
it's not perfect.

In air, there is enough dirt, dust, and condensate to see the green
beam of my pointer for at least 600+ meters.  Not the beam itself, but
the beam does illuminate all the other things in air, which has the
effect of making the beam visible.

Density of dust in planetary space is certainly lower, but may be
enough that with a high power weapons laser, there is a lovely little
trail of sparklies.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_dust_cloud

--

"Any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from a genuine
kook." -Alan Morgan