On 9/4/20 10:32 am, Thomas Jones-Low wrote:
> On 4/8/2020 6:53 PM, xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:59 PM Thomas Jones-Low <xxxxxx@gmail.com
>> <mailto:xxxxxx@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 4/8/2020 2:05 PM, xxxxxx@gmail.com
>> <mailto:xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>      > I do recall that someone built a massive spreadsheet for GT
>> for (I think)
>>     the
>>      > Spinward Marches and let GT's trade mechanics define where the
>> trading mains
>>      > would naturally form and the smaller routes (I think three
>> levels).
>>     Somewhere,
>>      > on an old computer, on an old drive, I have the map that comes
>> out of
>>     that. It
>>      > looks *a lot* different route-wise than the standard Spinward
>> Marches map.
>>      >
>>      > Ideally, one day, one of us will build some software that can
>> be coupled
>>     to one
>>      > of the great online maps or to an arbitrary sector map and use
>> that and some
>>      > decent algorithms factoring in nearby systems (J-1 to J-4
>> range, beyond that
>>      > likely isn't economical) and UWPs and trade codes to come up
>> with all trade
>>      > routes (which would also tend, of necessity, to become part of
>> any X-boat
>>      > message) and then use that in conjunction with some exchange
>> rates, stock
>>      > exchanges, and random (or inserted) events to model changes
>> over time and
>>     report
>>      > those in a format a GM could use in game planning.
>>
>>              I've kept up the process of generating the trade maps
>> using the
>>     GT:Far Trader
>>     Rules and other places.
>>     Map : https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/File:Spinward_Marches_Sector.pdf
>>     Data:
>> https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Spinward_Marches_Sector/economic/Milieu_1116
>>     Key : https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Trade_Map_Key
>>
>>              I have the data for generating the spreadsheets and / or
>> importing
>>     into a
>>     project of this kind. The wiki has maps for all of the sectors in
>> Traveller Map
>>
>> ---> All that's missing is being able to use it for MyTU, vs. OTU ;)
>>
>> --> And in the long run, what I want to do is have software do that
>> so that as things happen (events, movement of populations,
>> development, population crashes, you name it), the trade values will
>> change and then in a while so will the routes.
>>
>> --> Really for now I'd just like to be able to submit a custom sector
>> to a software and have it provide trade ratings and what trade
>> connections make sense as an output.
>>
>>
>     The software to generate the maps and other data is here:
> https://github.com/makhidkarun/traveller_pyroute
>
>     If you have a custom sector in a compatible text file I can run
> the data for you. or you can run it. The problem is the process takes
> too long to run by putting it into a web site.
>
>     The GT Trade system is driven by the population numbers, which are
> order of magnitude. So unless you are dealing with events which affect
> populations at that scale (Black war or pandemics for example), the
> trade won't change much.

Thomas,

So the hash and equality speedups I did for traveller-pyroute didn't
really change that?

On reflection, I suppose only reducing run time by 40-odd percent
wouldn't do overly much.

What sort of speedup would be needed to make the "submit custom gubbins
and rerun for charted space" approach work?  Roughly a thousandfold?

I got the impression (from reading GT:FT and traveller-pyroute numerous
times) that the algorithm was inherently serial - for those of us
alongside me in the cheap seats, I believe that it really couldn't be
divided up and farmed out to multiple CPU cores to speed it up.

Kaladorn,

At least with the GT gravity-trade model and the travellerrpg data,
long-range trade is _massive_ and interdependent.  From my own
experiments (which gave rise to the patches I mentioned above), a
single-sector trade map, standing alone, has vastly different trade
patterns than that same sector in a full-Imperium or full-charted-space
context.

One experiment I tried resulted in side effects visible throughout
Charted Space, with side orders of multiple, distinct, trade routes to
systems within the Great Rift.  That temporarily diverted me into
thinking about how to implement stable, usable wormholes in
traveller-pyroute and their effects on trade.