On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:29:45 +0000, Timothy Collinson - timothy.collinson
at port.ac.uk (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:

>I entirely agree with Greg's questions.  While you don't want to nail down
>everything, I think the social bit of the UWP is probably a bit critical.
>But I like the idea of the physical just being 'livable'.

>May I put in a bid for it to be a starport near a sea (or at least a large
>lake) for interest sake?

See my other comments in the thread. I think it's quite reasonable for it
to also be a riverport/seaport.

As far as the "social UWP", I don't think it really needs to be pinned down
too hard; about the only thing I'd say is that I don't want the pop digit
to be more than 8 - but the multiplier can be high.

Government and law level are open; if the values make a difference in your
story, write it that way - but remember that there's likely to be somewhat
more lax enforcement in startown; don't want to drive away the offworld
trade, after all....

Tech... I'd keep it in the 7-11 range, possibly with a prohibition on grav
vehicles in startown (don't want any accidents with starships moving in and
out). Even that latter prohibition is only because if I render any scenes,
I can't include them because limitations of the program. At the same time,
a TL that's too high suggests that it may have a level of trade that
wouldn't fit with the proposed setting - not a backwater, but not a major
port - perhaps a small number of jumps out along a secondary route.

>tc
>
>On Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 18:20 David Shaw, <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> All good points. If I may add my own questions:
>>
>> Was the port built in the middle of nowhere and the town grew up around it
>> or was it built near to one or more existing settlements which then
>> expanded and merged into each other?
>>
>> Was the port originally built as a civilian port facility or is it a
>> converted military base or R&D/test facility?
>>
>> What's the local geography like? Are there any natural barriers to
>> expansion such as mountains, oceans, marshland etc?
>>
>> How old is the port? Has it been well maintained? Renovated? Rebuilt? Or
>> has it been starved of funds and is now run down, grimy and old?
>>
>> Is this the main port for the world or a subsidiary one?
>>
>> David Shaw
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 17:49 greg caires, <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think we would want to know law level, government, water and
>>> atmosphere. Is star town a haven from tyranny (Casablanca?) or a mildly
>>> sinful entertainment center (Vegas?) or a truly dangerous place (mos
>>> eisley). Is it under a dome? Is it surrounded by a fence or a massive wall?
>>> Are people pleading to get in, tunneling to he’ll get in, or can they come
>>> and go freely?
>>>
>>> -30-
>>> Caires sends via iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Feb 24, 2021, at 6:37 AM, Jeff Zeitlin <
>>> xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > ?On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:21:41 -0600, greg caires <xxxxxx@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Jeff to do this I think we need to start with the planet’s UPP. That
>>> will
>>> >> help us understand the juxtaposition of the starport/town. Can you
>>> please
>>> >> generate some please? I think this is a fun idea.
>>> >
>>> > This is a good point; I haven't actually worked up a firm UWP. I would
>>> say
>>> > that a 'hard' UWP isn't really necessary, though; rather, any world that
>>> > would be a "terrestrial shirtsleeve environment" should do the trick.
>>> >
>>> > (Note that any renderings won't be able to show e.g., grav vehicles or
>>> > starships; the program in question really only supports a TL7-8 type of
>>> > environment. For those that are interested, it's _Cities in Motion_,
>>> from
>>> > Paradox Interactive, with a couple of minor usermods.)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> -30-
>>> >> Caires sends via iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >>>> On Feb 23, 2021, at 6:53 PM, Jeff Zeitlin <
>>> xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ?A year or five ago, I floated the idea of a shared-setting _Tales of
>>> >>> Startown_, conceptually similar to _Thieves' World_, but set in a
>>> Traveller
>>> >>> startown on a world where the startown was built as a roughly TL8 city
>>> >>> (because I have a program that can do renderings of city scenes from
>>> such a
>>> >>> setting).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I _think_ I'm coming around to a point where I can think about perhaps
>>> >>> considering the idea of resurrecting the idea. It'll help if you
>>> will...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'd like some ideas from you. I can detail the city accurately as
>>> long as
>>> >>> it fits within a square 15.5km on a side. That's almost the size of
>>> >>> Washington DC plus Alexandria VA!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I figure the port will be a Class C port, somewhat off the largest
>>> trade
>>> >>> routes, but not necessarily a complete backwater. Although C ports
>>> don't
>>> >>> generally have highports associated with them, I don't rule it out -
>>> but
>>> >>> startown includes/is associated with the downport, and the highport
>>> >>> shouldn't be a central feature if it's decided that it exists.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So... I'd appreciate it if people would work up ideas for the
>>> *general*
>>> >>> layout and character of the port and city - where, in that square, is
>>> the
>>> >>> port, how big is it, what is the character (e.g., steel-and-glass
>>> offices,
>>> >>> industrial, brownstones, detached housing, semidetached housing,
>>> >>> apartments, retail, etc.) of which neighborhoods where relative to
>>> such
>>> >>> features as the port itself, rivers, sea/lakeshores, etc.... how do
>>> streets
>>> >>> line up with adjacent areas? through streets or cul-de-sacs? Highways?
>>> >>> Railroads? Trams? Monorails? Bus lines? Metro (elevated, surface,
>>> >>> underground?)? Parks? Tourist attractions? Entertainment facilites?
>>> Slums?
>>> >>> Shantytowns? Without going into detail, what is the layout of the
>>> major
>>> >>> thoroughfares? Is the extrality line a fence, a Berlin-type wall, a
>>> >>> notional line on the ground?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ideally, sketch it out and label it, scan it, and email it to me with
>>> any
>>> >>> additional text notes you feel appropriate.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'll go through them all, and pick and choose what I like, and put
>>> together
>>> >>> an amalgam of features. Then, I'll detail a couple of areas, put
>>> together
>>> >>> some notes, and make them available for people to use when they write
>>> their
>>> >>> stories for the _Tales_ (which will be published in FT and posted in a
>>> >>> separate section of Raconteurs' Rest). I won't detail everything;
>>> that will
>>> >>> be left to be done by the stories as needed, just as was done with
>>> >>> _Thieves' World_'s Sanctuary.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> DON'T FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO PLAN ON BEING AN AUTHOR IN ORDER TO BE A
>>> CITY
>>> >>> PLANNER! DON'T FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO BE A CITY PLANNER IN ORDER TO BE
>>> AN
>>> >>> AUTHOR! You don't; some people have talents in one direction, some in
>>> >>> another.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ®Traveller is a registered trademark of
>>> >>> Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
>>> >>> the trademark in this notice and in the
>>> >>> referenced materials is not intended to
>>> >>> infringe or devalue the trademark.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
>>> >>> Freelance Traveller
>>> >>>   The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
>>> >>> xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
>>> >>> http://www.freelancetraveller.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
>>> >>> enterprises for hosting services:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)
>>> >>> The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)
>>> >>> -----
>>> >>> The Traveller Mailing List
>>> >>> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>>> >>> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>>> >>> http://archives.simplelists.com
>>> >> -----
>>> >> The Traveller Mailing List
>>> >> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>>> >> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>>> >> http://archives.simplelists.com
>>> >
>>> > ®Traveller is a registered trademark of
>>> > Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
>>> > the trademark in this notice and in the
>>> > referenced materials is not intended to
>>> > infringe or devalue the trademark.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
>>> > Freelance Traveller
>>> >    The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
>>> > xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
>>> > http://www.freelancetraveller.com
>>> >
>>> > Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
>>> > enterprises for hosting services:
>>> >
>>> > onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)
>>> > The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)
>>> > -----
>>> > The Traveller Mailing List
>>> > Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>>> > Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>>> > To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>>> > http://archives.simplelists.com
>>> -----
>>> The Traveller Mailing List
>>> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>>> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>>> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>>> http://archives.simplelists.com
>>
>> -----
>> The Traveller Mailing List
>> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>> http://archives.simplelists.com
>>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=wfcoddcMsNO4BxJM3qWTs4LGDbHIt4XD

®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
the trademark in this notice and in the
referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
    The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
http://www.freelancetraveller.com

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
enterprises for hosting services:

onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)
The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)