Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (28 Apr 2020 11:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Jeff Zeitlin (28 Apr 2020 12:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Timothy Collinson (28 Apr 2020 13:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Rupert Boleyn (28 Apr 2020 13:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Jeff Zeitlin (28 Apr 2020 14:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (28 Apr 2020 22:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Kenneth Barns (28 Apr 2020 22:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Graham Donald (29 Apr 2020 01:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (29 Apr 2020 01:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Bruce Johnson (29 Apr 2020 15:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Vareck Bostrom (29 Apr 2020 22:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (30 Apr 2020 08:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Vareck Bostrom (30 Apr 2020 08:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (30 Apr 2020 14:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Phil Pugliese (30 Apr 2020 15:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Vareck Bostrom (30 Apr 2020 16:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (30 Apr 2020 19:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Vareck Bostrom (30 Apr 2020 21:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... kaladorn@xxxxxx (01 May 2020 17:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Phil Pugliese (30 Apr 2020 21:25 UTC)
RE: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Steve Simenic (01 May 2020 02:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Thomas RUX (30 Apr 2020 20:29 UTC)
Klemperer Rosettes Jonathan Clark (01 May 2020 17:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Klemperer Rosettes Vareck Bostrom (01 May 2020 18:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Klemperer Rosettes Kelly St. Clair (01 May 2020 23:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Klemperer Rosettes Kelly St. Clair (01 May 2020 23:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] KlempererRosettes Jonathan Clark (02 May 2020 01:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Klemperer Rosettes Jonathan Clark (02 May 2020 01:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Klemperer Rosettes Vareck Bostrom (02 May 2020 02:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Kenneth Barns (29 Apr 2020 02:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Phil Pugliese (28 Apr 2020 19:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Rupert Boleyn (28 Apr 2020 19:49 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Thomas RUX (28 Apr 2020 19:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Rupert Boleyn (28 Apr 2020 20:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Thomas RUX (29 Apr 2020 02:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Phil Pugliese (29 Apr 2020 19:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Thomas Jones-Low (29 Apr 2020 20:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Phil Pugliese (30 Apr 2020 15:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] "That's no moon, it's a . . ." Jonathan Clark (01 May 2020 18:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] "That's no moon, it's a . . ." Phil Pugliese (01 May 2020 20:21 UTC)

Re: [TML] Where the UPP fails me... Vareck Bostrom 30 Apr 2020 16:22 UTC

Yes, just like the ancients made space be all 2 dimensional and
planets move in perfectly circular orbits. It's a little funny how
much Niven's influence came into Traveller, or at least these
discussions: Ringworlds and Klemperer Rosettes are both dynamically
unstable and both seemingly made their way from Ringworld to
Traveller.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 8:49 AM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at
yahoo.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
>
> And that's the big mystery of the one, or ones, that G'father, or his clones, created.
>
> Just how did he get them to be stable?
>
> But then it was 'The Ancients' wasn't it?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 01:51:04 AM MST, Vareck Bostrom <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's covered in brief on the wiki page for it:
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klemperer_rosette
>
> Simulations of this system[2] (or a simple linear perturbation analysis) demonstrate that such systems are unstable: any motion away from the perfect geometric configuration causes an oscillation, eventually leading to the disruption of the system (Klemperer's original article also states this fact). This is the case whether the center of the rosette is in free space, or itself in orbit around a star. The short-form reason is that any perturbation destroys the symmetry, which increases the perturbation, which further damages the symmetry, and so on.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 1:32 AM <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:16 PM Vareck Bostrom <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rosettes are not dynamically stable, even when they are of the same mass.
>
>
> I kind of thought they would be. What makes them not a stable configuration? Does it require some sort of eccentricity or the action of other bodies in the system to cause the instability?
>
> TomB
>
> -----
> The Traveller Mailing List
> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
> http://archives.simplelists.com
>
> -----
> The Traveller Mailing List
> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
> http://archives.simplelists.com
>
> -----
> The Traveller Mailing List
> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
> To unsubscribe from this list please go to
> http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=wkJZDVdDoS21PvuTrsXSMsmho7pwDsoN